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Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Monday, November 16, 2009 7:13 PM
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Rob Bryant (10/23/2009)
--short version, if we cut our administrative costs to only Canadian levels (and their system is far from the best), we save enough annually to provide health care to the uninsured with a single payer system.
[...]
Do you really hold so little faith in your fellow Americans, indeed in yourselves, that every other comparable nation in the world can accomplish something that we can't? Is your fear of change that strong?
You lost me when you said single-payer system. That's just... NOT the direction we need to go. Are you kidding me?
Look, your point there at the end doesn't have any merit. People like free and/or cheaper things, of course. Understand this: We can't afford anything like that. Even if we could, it would just escalate in price further and further. This government seems to think that it has buckets of money to play with that doesn't hurt our economy... come on.
Don't you think that it would be better to check out each area of waste in the system and chip away at things?
Honestly? No, I do not. You can treat the symptoms all you like, but if the disease is not addressed, things will continue to get worse. We've been ignoring the disease for decades, and now it's taking a DRAMATIC toll on our economy. We cannot afford to ignore health care, even for purely fiscal reasons. Every country at our economic level does health care better, and we won't get there with little nips at the strangle-hold the insurance industry has on our health care.
This is the kind of crap we have to put up with in the current system-
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/oct/14/ny-insurance-company-tries-to-rid-itself-of-high-c//print/
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Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Monday, February 01, 2010 7:21 PM
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Malcom Reynolds (10/23/2009)
[quote]Johnathon Aetaduesh (10/23/2009)
[quote]Malcom Reynolds (10/22/2009)
I think you may be in the wrong forum. This is kind of stuff I have seen over at: http://www.barackobama.com/
Either that or you're just a Troll.
You got me.
My real name is Obamandias, king of liberals. Look upon my contrary opinions, ye smug, and despair!
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Group: Administrators
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Johnathon Aetaduesh (10/23/2009)
[quote]Malcom Reynolds (10/23/2009)
You got me.
My real name is Obamandias, king of liberals. Look upon my contrary opinions, ye smug, and despair!
Johnathon,
Please keep the conversation focused on the topic which is health care. We welcome your discussion on this board and enjoy a lively debate, but all conversation must be focused on the topic.
Consider this your first warning.
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Group: Forum Members
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GOPAdmin_NiaS (10/23/2009)
Johnathon,
Please keep the conversation focused on the topic which is health care. We welcome your discussion on this board and enjoy a lively debate, but all conversation must be focused on the topic.
Consider this your first warning.
I like the way you cherry pick your warnings. Btw, who is that in your avatar?
If we are forced to pay for some democrat Obamacare then they win! We can't let that happen to Our Free Country!
Really? So this isn't about what is best for the country? This is about a game of us and them? Do you even care what policies are put in place so long as a it is a republican doing it?
The important thing to remember about this bill is that it will not eliminate private insurance companies. It will provide an option for those who cannot afford private insurance. As an American citizen, I believe it is important to take care of my fellow citizens. I don't understand how America can justify waging a war for "freedom" on the other side of the world while our own citizens are dying every day because they can't afford healthcare. That just doesn't make sense.
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Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 11:08 AM
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| NiaS dont get sarcasm, obviously.
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Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Sunday, December 20, 2009 1:28 PM
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You realize what you advocate leads to the deaths of several thousand people every year, right?
You're kidding, right? People by the thousands die every year....with and without insurance, not because they are uninsured.
".... and those with pre-existing conditions die in the street."
The only people around here dying in the streets have either been hit by a drunk driver and was a drunk driver. Be realistic.....people in the US get medical help regardless and that is what makes our health care the best in the world.
I like reading the pros and cons on this subject, but please don't try to promote your view by using stuff you've been fed as facts.
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Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Monday, February 01, 2010 7:21 PM
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"You're kidding, right? People by the thousands die every year....with and without insurance, not because they are uninsured."
No, seriously. There are around 45,000 deaths associated with lack of health insurance every year. People feel sick, but don't go to the doctor because they know that it will bankrupt them. Most of the time they get better on their own, but 45,000 times a year they don't and end up dead.
From a 2009 study on this very subject:
"Lack of health insurance is associated with
as many as 44789 deaths per year in the
United States, more than those caused by
kidney disease (n=42868).43 The increased
risk of death attributable to uninsurance
suggests that alternative measures of access
to medical care for the uninsured, such as
community health centers, do not provide the
protection of private health insurance."
And here's the source: http://www.ncpa.org/pdfs/2009_harvard_health_study.pdf
".... and those with pre-existing conditions die in the street." - This was hyperbole.
"that is what makes our health care the best in the world." No, it isn't. We're 44th in infant mortality, 19th (out of the 19 countries in the study) in deaths amenable to health care, and 1st in health care spending. I would bring up the fact that we were ranked 37th by the WHO, but those rankings are old and somewhat biased.
But seriously our health care system is terrible and it's a huge national shame.
"I like reading the pros and cons on this subject, but please don't try to promote your view by using stuff you've been fed as facts." These are facts.
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Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Monday, February 01, 2010 7:21 PM
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| I'd just like to point out again that our current system results in the deaths of thousands of people every year because they can't afford insurance and that if you're okay with that then you're an objectively bad person.
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Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Yesterday @ 12:57 PM
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I am seriously upset about all this we win - they win BS! How about the American people. With no change WE ALL LOSE!!!!!!!!!! We CANNOT continue the way we're going. The GOP would be better off if they came up with viable arguments months ago rather than: "NO WAY" "LET'S SLOW DOWN" Let's throw even more money at the Insurers"
I guess no one in the GOP has lost a loved one due to not having Healthcare - nor have they had benefits refused. We're all rich bastards who have no problems in life - NOT!
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Group: Forum Members
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In order to fix healthcare the health insurance industry needs to be deregulated. Right now the States each have regulations on the types of products that can be offered, which necessarily drives up the price for the average person. Also, routine doctor visits are NOT insurance. Insurance necessitates risk and there is no risk involved for people who have routine medical work as they know beforehand that they are going to do it. On aggregate, preventive care does not save money. in fact, the opposite is true. It is cost saving for the individual, but if there is a 1/1000 rate of incidence and you test 1000 people every year for 20 years if you find the person who has the disease after 10 you still have to keep testing there is still 19990 x the cost of the test as a total cost for one early detection. It's MORE expensive.
It bears repeating that no other type of insurance is this messed up. Not Life insurance or Car insurance. The more likely you are to die or get into an accident the more you pay. The Government would have healthy people pay the same amount as people who are sick or more likely to get sick when a small premium for catastrophic coverage is all that is necessary. If people had to choose to pay money from their own pocket for voluntary, non-catastrophic healthcare you would see prices fall for most of the care that people receive. Contrary to what our CIC has been saying the way to cut costs is to allow real freedom of choice with no coverage minimums and competition between healthcare providers, not to have government mandate coverage.
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